I'm not saying I've done this, but if you're handy with bitcoin, it's so much cheaper to go through the steroid sites. I saw a sale of 10 x 10mg for reta where the total price was $225 with shipping. That's $22.5 per vial which is absurdly cheaper than any of the "legit" methods of getting GLPs.
And hey, if you want a little test/anavar/tren to spice up your GLP, you can get that in the same order!
Did I get it right Triz (Mounjaro or Zepbound) and Reta (still in clinical trials) have better mechanisms than Sema (Ozempic or Wegovy), so gray market customers choose them, and gray market versions of all three are a fraction of official versions?
Triz is a double agonist while Sema is a single agonist. Generally, more agonists = better, although some people will prefer one to another due to the side effects.
Reta is a triple agonist that is basically Triz + glucagon. Bodybuilders love it because it'll repress appetite but also burn fat. As for why they're cheaper, it's because the Chinese will manufacture them for cheaper than the pharma companies, not slap a tremendous markup on them, and then sell the raw powder to the steroid sites.
The online stores that sell these usually are also reputable websites that have been selling anabolic steroids for years. There's a forum that discusses various vendors with people sending samples and posting lab results with content/purity. I don't think any of these reputable sources would then try to sell bunk weight loss drugs, because once found out, the word would quickly spread in the bodybuilding circles and people would just buy from competition instead.
Somewhat irrelevant at this point. The peptides are sold freely in other countries as substances with which to experiment in petri dishes. Not for use on humans. I repeat - not for use on humans.
The worst thing about these drugs hitting the pharma market in recent years is that it has sucked the air out of the room for other investment due to their immense profitability. So much cutting edge talent is being squandered to work on these weight loss drugs because they pay the bills better than solving rare disease. I've heard a direct quote from a pharma product manager in person: "we don't look for cures, we look for treatments." You know, because cure implies a one time payment.
While I get what you're saying I don't think this is what most people think of as "solved".
The brass tacks are:
1. Estimates for the cost of obesity globally are somewhere around 2 trillion dollars.
2. Telling people to diet and exercise usually did not get them to lose weight
3. Giving people semaglutide does get them to lose weight
So many people in my life who were unhappy and struggling with their weight are now happy because semaglutide worked where advice about diet and exercise did not. I can't imagine most rare disease drugs will have that level of impact.
If it's solved, then why are 75% of US adults overweight? I submit that a disease affecting 3/4 adults is still a public health issue even if a treatment exists.
The bad news is that the root cause is stress under capitalism. Health is yet another long-term investment poorer people end up being unable to leverage due to lack of liquidity.
It takes time and money to ensure a healthy diet. Exercise takes up a massive amount of time and energy. People who are struggling to make ends meet can't afford these things. Tolerance of discomfort isn't unlimited and people don't have infinite willpower. We are pushed to spend all that tolerance and all that willpower at work.
These drugs let you buy tolerance of discomfort at a discount, so you can spend more of it at work.
My experience is that people generally are already doing their best. They don't need "more willpower" or more threats. They need tools, support, and less things asked of them.
The problem is that this talent is not solving the issue. They're creating appetite suppressants to treat the symptoms of the underlying issue. We should be implementing things like sugar tax instead. Starbucks has no business selling 1500 calories worth of sugar with a sprinkle of coffee in a cup.
I'm not implying we should completely stop researching treatments. I'm saying that these treatments are only dealing with the symptoms; letting the core underlying issue remain unaddressed will make these symptoms keep coming back - unlike HIV which has had large prevention and awareness programs for decades. No need for childish, snarky remarks.
It's childish to say that we should stop putting money into one of the most important drugs of all time, which...
- cures (not treats, but cures for a lot of people) obesity and diabetes
- lowers rates of heart disease
- reduces the risk of various cancers
- may help with addiction
...just because you can also diet to reduce obesity. If it were that easy, people would do it. No one enjoys being obese. There are a million complex factors that cause it, and some of them are genetic.
Nearly 100% of people suffer from a disease that would be helped by GLP-1's at some point in their lives. Maybe it won't be useful for all those people because of efficacy or side effects or whatever, but every dollar that goes into them gets us back far, far more years of human life than researching rare diseases.
I’m not so sure. When pharma companies are flush with cash they tend to get more experimental. Lilly’s gene editing group is one of the few that’s doing well (last I heard anyway) and they recently acquired Verve. I can’t imagine that would happen without GLP-1 profits bankrolling everything. Rare disease is effectively charity and the money has to come from somewhere.
These days people just order Reta/Triz instead of Sema off steroid websites anyway, so the patent is not a big deal.
I'm not saying I've done this, but if you're handy with bitcoin, it's so much cheaper to go through the steroid sites. I saw a sale of 10 x 10mg for reta where the total price was $225 with shipping. That's $22.5 per vial which is absurdly cheaper than any of the "legit" methods of getting GLPs.
And hey, if you want a little test/anavar/tren to spice up your GLP, you can get that in the same order!
Did I get it right Triz (Mounjaro or Zepbound) and Reta (still in clinical trials) have better mechanisms than Sema (Ozempic or Wegovy), so gray market customers choose them, and gray market versions of all three are a fraction of official versions?
Triz is a double agonist while Sema is a single agonist. Generally, more agonists = better, although some people will prefer one to another due to the side effects.
Reta is a triple agonist that is basically Triz + glucagon. Bodybuilders love it because it'll repress appetite but also burn fat. As for why they're cheaper, it's because the Chinese will manufacture them for cheaper than the pharma companies, not slap a tremendous markup on them, and then sell the raw powder to the steroid sites.
Counterfeits is a problem. How would you know you are getting the real deal?
The online stores that sell these usually are also reputable websites that have been selling anabolic steroids for years. There's a forum that discusses various vendors with people sending samples and posting lab results with content/purity. I don't think any of these reputable sources would then try to sell bunk weight loss drugs, because once found out, the word would quickly spread in the bodybuilding circles and people would just buy from competition instead.
Would be interested to know more about which website you saw the sale on. For research purposes of course, have my email in bio.
Actually all the mom groups in Facebook started bulk buying as well it’s insane the gray market that was made by there pricing in the US
Somewhat irrelevant at this point. The peptides are sold freely in other countries as substances with which to experiment in petri dishes. Not for use on humans. I repeat - not for use on humans.
The worst thing about these drugs hitting the pharma market in recent years is that it has sucked the air out of the room for other investment due to their immense profitability. So much cutting edge talent is being squandered to work on these weight loss drugs because they pay the bills better than solving rare disease. I've heard a direct quote from a pharma product manager in person: "we don't look for cures, we look for treatments." You know, because cure implies a one time payment.
Talk about perverse incentive.
> So much cutting edge talent is being squandered to work on these weight loss drugs because they pay the bills better than solving rare disease.
Isn’t this backwards? Obesity is probably one of the very top health epidemics we’re facing. Rare diseases aren’t.
Weight loss is solved already. Diet and exercise. Done. No profit for pharma company doing that though.
Rare diseases are not solved, you die or have lifelong quality of life issues. Collectively, they aren't that rare.
While I get what you're saying I don't think this is what most people think of as "solved".
The brass tacks are:
1. Estimates for the cost of obesity globally are somewhere around 2 trillion dollars.
2. Telling people to diet and exercise usually did not get them to lose weight
3. Giving people semaglutide does get them to lose weight
So many people in my life who were unhappy and struggling with their weight are now happy because semaglutide worked where advice about diet and exercise did not. I can't imagine most rare disease drugs will have that level of impact.
If it's solved, then why are 75% of US adults overweight? I submit that a disease affecting 3/4 adults is still a public health issue even if a treatment exists.
Addicted to drugs? Stop doing drugs. Done.
That's poor sugar industry propaganda. Doesn't help. You need to fight the root cause.
The bad news is that the root cause is stress under capitalism. Health is yet another long-term investment poorer people end up being unable to leverage due to lack of liquidity.
It takes time and money to ensure a healthy diet. Exercise takes up a massive amount of time and energy. People who are struggling to make ends meet can't afford these things. Tolerance of discomfort isn't unlimited and people don't have infinite willpower. We are pushed to spend all that tolerance and all that willpower at work.
These drugs let you buy tolerance of discomfort at a discount, so you can spend more of it at work.
My experience is that people generally are already doing their best. They don't need "more willpower" or more threats. They need tools, support, and less things asked of them.
No, the root cause is simply the sugar industry. And the unwillingness of the government to regulate it.
Yeah, the top talent should focus on finding better ways to monetize ads, not a health issue impacting hundreds of millions of people.
The problem is that this talent is not solving the issue. They're creating appetite suppressants to treat the symptoms of the underlying issue. We should be implementing things like sugar tax instead. Starbucks has no business selling 1500 calories worth of sugar with a sprinkle of coffee in a cup.
Should we stop researching melanoma treatments because melanoma is "solved"? Just don't go out in the sun!
What about HIV? That's solved too: just never have sex!
Medicine and public health are so easy. As soon as we know how to prevent something, 100% of people will do it!
I'm not implying we should completely stop researching treatments. I'm saying that these treatments are only dealing with the symptoms; letting the core underlying issue remain unaddressed will make these symptoms keep coming back - unlike HIV which has had large prevention and awareness programs for decades. No need for childish, snarky remarks.
It's childish to say that we should stop putting money into one of the most important drugs of all time, which...
- cures (not treats, but cures for a lot of people) obesity and diabetes
- lowers rates of heart disease
- reduces the risk of various cancers
- may help with addiction
...just because you can also diet to reduce obesity. If it were that easy, people would do it. No one enjoys being obese. There are a million complex factors that cause it, and some of them are genetic.
Nearly 100% of people suffer from a disease that would be helped by GLP-1's at some point in their lives. Maybe it won't be useful for all those people because of efficacy or side effects or whatever, but every dollar that goes into them gets us back far, far more years of human life than researching rare diseases.
I’m not so sure. When pharma companies are flush with cash they tend to get more experimental. Lilly’s gene editing group is one of the few that’s doing well (last I heard anyway) and they recently acquired Verve. I can’t imagine that would happen without GLP-1 profits bankrolling everything. Rare disease is effectively charity and the money has to come from somewhere.