It is not really a phone - it is more like a Wifi connected device which makes all calls over VOIP. There is no GSM connection and therefore no SIM etc. I like the project but calling this a phone is inaccurate.
If a GSM module is also included, this would be a lovely device to have. Also, would be nice to have a much larger screen.
I don't think that's fair. Phones used to be connected by wires, then there where a few satellite connected phones, and nowadays most are connected by cellular. But they're all phones because that's what we call a device used to connect and talk to people at long distance using a registry of numbers or names. This one connects using WiFi, which is unusual. But it has the same basic functionality of being a phone.
For the last 10 years the default definition of "phone" (unmodified) has been "cell phone". These days if you want to refer to a landline you call it that. If you want to refer to a WiFi phone you call it that.
The primary function of a "phone" in the modern sense is to allow people to reach you (by means of SMS or voice) wherever you happen to be at the time. Something that doesn't meet that need isn't an unqualified "phone".
I find it interesting you mentioned SMS first, before voice. When I say "phone" I primarily think of a tool for phone calls. I'm probably older than you.
It's can't make calls but it does send SMS via a low-frequency radio, so you can send text messages in the middle of a jungle. Technically your cellular phone can't do that unless it's connected to starlink.
How about we define "phone" as a voice capable device that is reachable by its assigned phone number. It's the unifying factor for dozens of different technologies that have been called "phone" for decades.
Unfortunately you can't actually just pick a definition for a word based on what makes sense to you. Definitions are decided collectively by all speakers of the language, and the definition I gave is actually a fairly conservative one.
Plenty of people actually use "phone" to mean not only "cell phone" but specifically a "smart phone" and feel the need to qualify it if they mean a "dumb phone". Like it or not, that's the way the word is going.
In most settings that question includes an implicit "cell"! They're not asking if they can go home with you and use your landline, they're assuming you have a phone in your pocket with service.
A landline is a type of phone in the same way that a panda is a type of bear. Technically it's true, but if you say you went to see the bears at the zoo it's your own fault that people aren't picturing something with black and white splotches.
Some people do. Others don't. Why would you get to decide which usage is blessed?
Like plenty of people talk about phone calls that only take place on zoom or meets without ever using a smartphone or dumb phone (but the call is joinable via an assigned phone number)
Yes, most commercial SIP providers are required by law to support emergency services, at least in the US.
If we're getting technical it is a mobile phone, just not a cellular phone. A cellular phone will work anywhere it can get a compatible cellular signal and this will work anywhere with decent WiFi.
Let's go back to PDA (Personal Digital Assistant). Although in this day and age I feel like I am the assistant to my phone, so maybe that is no longer accurate.
Why is it not fair to have a disagreement on terminology? There is not even a right or wrong answer here IMO, I think it's all subjective.
If you want to get technical, the dictionary definition of a phone is "electronic equipment that converts sound into electrical signals that can be transmitted over distances and then converts received signals back into sounds"... which landlines, VoIP/WiFi and cellular all fit the bill.
I guess it all depends on what you mean by a phone.
For me a phone is something which allows me to make/receive a phone call (at the very least) - to any phone number without requiring some special software to be installed on either end of the phone call.
For instance, even on a cellphone, I distinguish between calls made directly via the phone dialer vs Whatsapp video/audio calls or any VOIP call - because the other side has to have a compatible/supporting application/app to receive that call.
It's a phone, just not a cell phone. But I must admit, that I also was a little disappointed to see that it wasn't a cell phone.
I've been wanting a simple, open source phone (a cell phone that is) that allows me to easily hook into events with some code. Like for example, when a phone call comes in, I want to be able to run certain logic based on what number is calling etc.
Well, to write the code you'd need some knowledge of programming. But some top of my head random example would be, if I miss a call from the tax agency, add an item to my todo list to call the tax agency back. Or if a number that I don't have in my contacts, and it starts with my area code, ring with a specific ring tone, so I know I should probably answer. Or for example you could have logic when a text with certain content from a certain person is received.
I see it more as a clever way to sell a Flipper Zero -ish device where the former has been or would be banned. Hardware is similar, it just need capable firmware to be written or ported over.
a device by which sound (such as speech) is converted into electrical impulses and transmitted (as by wire or radio waves) to one or more specific receivers
It was actually a real phone based on ESP32 + a GSM/LTE module. It could make phone calls, SMS, had games, apps, etc. at the level of what early 2000 GSM phones could do. Project is abandoned now.
I owned a Wiphone for about 3 days before deciding it's not for me. I was hoping for something that followed the Unix philosophy of doing one thing well and working well with others. Unfortunately though the included firmware was rather bad at filling the role of a phone. I couldn't get my SIP account to reliably place calls. Sometimes the call would be established and I would hear the other end, but the other end could not hear me. Usually it wouldn't connect at all and there was no error logging to tell me what was going wrong. The Pacman clone was the most enjoyable app.
How long ago was this? Our VoIP stack is completely custom and has taken a while to build. We've been putting significant work into it and lately it's better.
We've also specifically avoided adding many additional features while the calling and texting was brought up, so you aren't wrong on the philosophy, maybe you just bought yours before the work was done.
You can enable logging errors to a serial console. We don't add that by default because it slows down the OS. My email is in my profile if you'd like me to walk you through how to enable that.
CGNAT is very common in broadband ISPs, to the point that you’re more likely to be sharing an IP with other users than not unless you’re specifically paying more for a dedicated IP.
It's pretty cool, though I probably wouldn't spend for it, being a cheap bastard.
If you wanted to use encryption, you could set up a VM or Pi on your local WiFi network running Asterisk, and have the calls bridged, such as Asterisk <--> Jitsi, with the person on the other end using Jitsi; this would encrypt everything except the local Wifi portion, but anything leaving your home would be encrypted.
Any time a phone number touches the "regular" phone network, it must by law be allowed to be eavesdropped on (CALEA) by the government. So anything completing over SIP that used regular phone service could be intercepted. If you had encryption from the WiPhone to a shared Asterisk, such as with a group all using the same PBX then you might be able to avoid it.
Cool project, and an accompanying blog that's already running for years. Please add an RSS feed to the blog, so people can get updates that way. Now I can only save it as a bookmark.
I really like the fact that Wiphone has LoRA add-ons!
If such a device could support Signal and WhatsApp voice call and text messages, it would be awesome. In the meantime it doesn't seem actually usable in the real world. Fun hacking (in the sense of tinkering) device though.
Your android doesn't natively support all hardware communication protocols like I2C, SPI, and UART... It's still a walled garden without access to the source code. You can't modify the firmware, drivers, or hardware behavior.
> We have designed both a LoRa add-on module and an LTE module. Please join the mailing list if you want to be notified when they are ready for sale. We may also sell other modules depending on interest.
Unfortunately a non starter for myself and I suspect many others. I am happy to hook into a push notification plane or build by own polling etc, but without LTE this device isn't useful as soon as I step out the door :(.
FWIW, Whisperfish, the unofficial Signal client for Sailfish OS works really well.
An if I wanted, I could use the WhatsApp Android app on Sailfish
via its App Support emulation layer.
I waiting for STM (ARM0) and usbC
and meybe better power (step-up-down from 1-12V?) I can emergency use any AA, 18650, 12V from my car, solar panel etc.
And meybe integrated sound cable for baofeng/quansheng (K1<->USBA) USBA as powerbank and Packet radio or http://reticulum.network
I could see using one of these as a landline replacement. I was lamenting with another parent the expense of a landline and how difficult it is for kids to call each other to arrange a park meetup or other games - this could fill that gap perfectly.
How hard would be to add a GSM module to this device? I assume that it won't be no longer fully open source due to proprietary firmware, but that would add a whole new dimension of usefulness.
I like the little phone UI showcase above the fold. Reminds me of those Flash-based interactive UI demos that phone makers had on their sites back in the early 00s.
burrurrrring burrurrring,Hello you have reached the US Government Prosecution Department,Elon division
please press #1 if Elon said something incorrect
press 2 for Elon is arrogant,get him 3 for all issues with fairness 4 for space beams and rocket chem trails and 5 for all other things that Elon is responsible for
> WHY ARE YOU USING BUTTONS AND NOT A TOUCHSCREEN?
> Because they are simpler and (at this scale) cheaper than buying a larger touch-enabled screen. We want to make a low-cost phone that's easy for people to adapt to their needs. We think physical buttons are easier for people with limited hacking skills (or simply better things to do than configure soft buttons) to adapt to their needs.
It is not really a phone - it is more like a Wifi connected device which makes all calls over VOIP. There is no GSM connection and therefore no SIM etc. I like the project but calling this a phone is inaccurate.
If a GSM module is also included, this would be a lovely device to have. Also, would be nice to have a much larger screen.
I don't think that's fair. Phones used to be connected by wires, then there where a few satellite connected phones, and nowadays most are connected by cellular. But they're all phones because that's what we call a device used to connect and talk to people at long distance using a registry of numbers or names. This one connects using WiFi, which is unusual. But it has the same basic functionality of being a phone.
For the last 10 years the default definition of "phone" (unmodified) has been "cell phone". These days if you want to refer to a landline you call it that. If you want to refer to a WiFi phone you call it that.
The primary function of a "phone" in the modern sense is to allow people to reach you (by means of SMS or voice) wherever you happen to be at the time. Something that doesn't meet that need isn't an unqualified "phone".
> If you want to refer to a WiFi phone you call it that.
To its credit, the thing under discussion is literally called "WiPhone", which sounds to me like a direct play on "WiFi phone".
I find it interesting you mentioned SMS first, before voice. When I say "phone" I primarily think of a tool for phone calls. I'm probably older than you.
Or it's just alphabetical
>by means of SMS
It's can't make calls but it does send SMS via a low-frequency radio, so you can send text messages in the middle of a jungle. Technically your cellular phone can't do that unless it's connected to starlink.
How about we define "phone" as a voice capable device that is reachable by its assigned phone number. It's the unifying factor for dozens of different technologies that have been called "phone" for decades.
Anything else seems absurd.
Unfortunately you can't actually just pick a definition for a word based on what makes sense to you. Definitions are decided collectively by all speakers of the language, and the definition I gave is actually a fairly conservative one.
Plenty of people actually use "phone" to mean not only "cell phone" but specifically a "smart phone" and feel the need to qualify it if they mean a "dumb phone". Like it or not, that's the way the word is going.
Can I use your phone?
They are asking to make a phone call, not play angry birds.
Phones make phone calls. End of story.
In most settings that question includes an implicit "cell"! They're not asking if they can go home with you and use your landline, they're assuming you have a phone in your pocket with service.
A landline is a type of phone in the same way that a panda is a type of bear. Technically it's true, but if you say you went to see the bears at the zoo it's your own fault that people aren't picturing something with black and white splotches.
Some people do. Others don't. Why would you get to decide which usage is blessed?
Like plenty of people talk about phone calls that only take place on zoom or meets without ever using a smartphone or dumb phone (but the call is joinable via an assigned phone number)
I don't get to decide and I'm not calling it blessed, but it's the one that is becoming dominant, like it or not.
> But it has the same basic functionality of being a phone.
Where I am, simply making calls over IP is not enough to qualify a device as a phone.
If it cannot phone the local police station, the local pharmacy or the local clinic, it's not really a phone.
>If it cannot phone the local police station, the local pharmacy or the local clinic, it's not really a phone.
It can if you have a SIP provider. The only limitation depending on your provider might be emergency numbers.
What it is not is a mobile phone. But it is totally a SIP phone.
Yes, most commercial SIP providers are required by law to support emergency services, at least in the US.
If we're getting technical it is a mobile phone, just not a cellular phone. A cellular phone will work anywhere it can get a compatible cellular signal and this will work anywhere with decent WiFi.
by your definition, my laptop is a phone too.
Correct, it can be a phone: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/phone
A videophone, no less!
No, that's not the primary purpose of your laptop.
By that logic, neither are modern day smartphones.
I agree. That's why I prefer the term mobile, since I can at least pretend it means mobile computer.
I'm partial to "com" - short for computer, or communicator. Hasn't caught on yet though.
Let's go back to PDA (Personal Digital Assistant). Although in this day and age I feel like I am the assistant to my phone, so maybe that is no longer accurate.
tell that to my mom! :P
Why is it not fair to have a disagreement on terminology? There is not even a right or wrong answer here IMO, I think it's all subjective.
If you want to get technical, the dictionary definition of a phone is "electronic equipment that converts sound into electrical signals that can be transmitted over distances and then converts received signals back into sounds"... which landlines, VoIP/WiFi and cellular all fit the bill.
It's not a cell phone.
It is definitely a phone.
I guess it all depends on what you mean by a phone.
For me a phone is something which allows me to make/receive a phone call (at the very least) - to any phone number without requiring some special software to be installed on either end of the phone call.
For instance, even on a cellphone, I distinguish between calls made directly via the phone dialer vs Whatsapp video/audio calls or any VOIP call - because the other side has to have a compatible/supporting application/app to receive that call.
A SIP phone is a phone. You don't need special software on either end. You just need a sip provider subscription.
We have VoIP phones on people's desks at work.. no one would think twice about calling them phones, because that's what they are.
According to their FAQ[1], they have already designed an LTE module, but it isn't ready for sale yet.
[1] https://www.wiphone.io/FAQ.html (under CAN YOU ADD A SIM CARD...)
> DO I NEED A SIM CARD?
> No. You might be able to get one into the microSD slot if you really push.
This made me smile :D
The name WiPhone sort of hints at that though, doesn't it? Obviously the title for the HN post doesn't include that.
It's a phone, just not a cell phone. But I must admit, that I also was a little disappointed to see that it wasn't a cell phone.
I've been wanting a simple, open source phone (a cell phone that is) that allows me to easily hook into events with some code. Like for example, when a phone call comes in, I want to be able to run certain logic based on what number is calling etc.
That'd be great. I'm curious, what kind of logic? Is it things ordinary non-programmers might also find useful?
Well, to write the code you'd need some knowledge of programming. But some top of my head random example would be, if I miss a call from the tax agency, add an item to my todo list to call the tax agency back. Or if a number that I don't have in my contacts, and it starts with my area code, ring with a specific ring tone, so I know I should probably answer. Or for example you could have logic when a text with certain content from a certain person is received.
LTE is already in the works.
> It is not really a phone
I see it more as a clever way to sell a Flipper Zero -ish device where the former has been or would be banned. Hardware is similar, it just need capable firmware to be written or ported over.
It is a phone. It’s not a cell phone.
Looks more like a phone to me than the mini tablet with GSM Im using right now
Can you really define a phone by the way it transmits data?
a device by which sound (such as speech) is converted into electrical impulses and transmitted (as by wire or radio waves) to one or more specific receivers
Agreed, other nice things to have:
* A multi-touch screen
* Dedicated app store
* AI voice controlled personal assistant
* Face ID to unlock the phone
* 48MP front facing and back facing cameras capable of 4K video
* Maybe have a fruit as a logo on the back of the phone
You forgot privacy invasive tracking.. I guess some people don't understand irony!
Apricot phone? ;)
MakerPhone / Ringo was far better.
It was actually a real phone based on ESP32 + a GSM/LTE module. It could make phone calls, SMS, had games, apps, etc. at the level of what early 2000 GSM phones could do. Project is abandoned now.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/albertgajsak/makerphone...
https://github.com/CircuitMess/CircuitMess-Ringo
I owned a Wiphone for about 3 days before deciding it's not for me. I was hoping for something that followed the Unix philosophy of doing one thing well and working well with others. Unfortunately though the included firmware was rather bad at filling the role of a phone. I couldn't get my SIP account to reliably place calls. Sometimes the call would be established and I would hear the other end, but the other end could not hear me. Usually it wouldn't connect at all and there was no error logging to tell me what was going wrong. The Pacman clone was the most enjoyable app.
How long ago was this? Our VoIP stack is completely custom and has taken a while to build. We've been putting significant work into it and lately it's better.
We've also specifically avoided adding many additional features while the calling and texting was brought up, so you aren't wrong on the philosophy, maybe you just bought yours before the work was done.
You can enable logging errors to a serial console. We don't add that by default because it slows down the OS. My email is in my profile if you'd like me to walk you through how to enable that.
> Sometimes the call would be established and I would hear the other end, but the other end could not hear me.
I've done some work in this area - CGNAT is to be blamed when using UDP for voice traffic.
Very hard to reliably hole-punch CGNAT.
It seems unlikely to be a cgnat issue since the phone uses WiFi rather than cellular networks (where cgnat is most commonly found).
CGNAT is very common in broadband ISPs, to the point that you’re more likely to be sharing an IP with other users than not unless you’re specifically paying more for a dedicated IP.
It's pretty cool, though I probably wouldn't spend for it, being a cheap bastard.
If you wanted to use encryption, you could set up a VM or Pi on your local WiFi network running Asterisk, and have the calls bridged, such as Asterisk <--> Jitsi, with the person on the other end using Jitsi; this would encrypt everything except the local Wifi portion, but anything leaving your home would be encrypted.
Any time a phone number touches the "regular" phone network, it must by law be allowed to be eavesdropped on (CALEA) by the government. So anything completing over SIP that used regular phone service could be intercepted. If you had encryption from the WiPhone to a shared Asterisk, such as with a group all using the same PBX then you might be able to avoid it.
Though it's not a "cell" phone as-is (I'd argue it is still a "phone"), there isn't much stopping it from becoming one!
GSM modules and supporting Arduino libraries are readily available, e.g. https://www.adafruit.com/category/281
Edit: I just saw there's a LoRA daughter board developed, so a GSM board seems not too far fetched! See: https://www.wiphone.io/docs/LoRa/latest/
Cool project, and an accompanying blog that's already running for years. Please add an RSS feed to the blog, so people can get updates that way. Now I can only save it as a bookmark.
I really like the fact that Wiphone has LoRA add-ons!
If such a device could support Signal and WhatsApp voice call and text messages, it would be awesome. In the meantime it doesn't seem actually usable in the real world. Fun hacking (in the sense of tinkering) device though.
Take an old Android phone you may already have lying around.
- Remove any SIM card
- Install VOIP softphone app and configure with WiFi.
- Go enjoy the $175 you didn't spend on this.
Except what intrigues me is the Lora module.
maybe read the specs first?
my old phone doesn't have:
20 pin programmable header on back of phone (including SPI, UART, I2C)
I2C Qwiic port (a lot of adafruit sensors have qwiic ports)
and code that i can modify in arduino ide
But your old phone probably has USB or Bluetooth with which you can connect some cheap board with all the pins you desire.
Your android doesn't natively support all hardware communication protocols like I2C, SPI, and UART... It's still a walled garden without access to the source code. You can't modify the firmware, drivers, or hardware behavior.
what would be some fun example of using those with this phone?
They have it on their website. They make an RC Car with it.
But I can make an RC car without it too. It’s a WiFi RC car. I too am curious who wants to modify a WiFi phone’s firmware and for what.
I also couldn't imagine what one was supposed to do with phone apps. The thought was: If functionality is useful just add it in hardware or to the OS?
I guess there will be awesome niche applications for this phone that are supper useful to an audience of one person.
When I read the headline I clicked to see how they solved the problem of getting onto the modern cell network with hackable components.
Answer: they didn’t. WiFi only.
Yes there are Arduino GSM modules , but they are old (2G or 3G), expensive, and do not work well or at all in the US.
If the price wasn't so high I'd say it would have a very relevant use as a replacement for FRS in one-building sized events.
I always thought the Nokia Python phone was a pretty neat idea.
https://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=148064
> We have designed both a LoRa add-on module and an LTE module. Please join the mailing list if you want to be notified when they are ready for sale. We may also sell other modules depending on interest.
Unfortunately a non starter for myself and I suspect many others. I am happy to hook into a push notification plane or build by own polling etc, but without LTE this device isn't useful as soon as I step out the door :(.
Signal & Whatsapp are now vendor lock in for the apple/droid duopoly. :(
FWIW, Whisperfish, the unofficial Signal client for Sailfish OS works really well. An if I wanted, I could use the WhatsApp Android app on Sailfish via its App Support emulation layer.
https://openrepos.net/content/rubdos/whisperfish
With some caveats, I also successfully used whatsapp over matrix although that required to have whatsapp running on a separate device.
Punkt's MP02 supports Signal.
https://www.punkt.ch/en/products/mp02-4g-mobile-phone/
The 3G and 4G versions of that phone are Android-based, for context.
That's disappointing to learn.
you could set an away message to point at other means of messaging(?)
[dead]
Would be fun to try to run Meshtastic on it.
I waiting for STM (ARM0) and usbC and meybe better power (step-up-down from 1-12V?) I can emergency use any AA, 18650, 12V from my car, solar panel etc. And meybe integrated sound cable for baofeng/quansheng (K1<->USBA) USBA as powerbank and Packet radio or http://reticulum.network
I could see using one of these as a landline replacement. I was lamenting with another parent the expense of a landline and how difficult it is for kids to call each other to arrange a park meetup or other games - this could fill that gap perfectly.
This looks cool!
The minimalist android shells feel pointless because the inherent complexity still exists.
How hard would be to add a GSM module to this device? I assume that it won't be no longer fully open source due to proprietary firmware, but that would add a whole new dimension of usefulness.
Sorry for my curiosity, but what are you doing in Pakistan?
Living and working there, presumably?
Well good old days of ioio which you can connect with android phone through usb or bluetooth and play with lower level pins.
I like the little phone UI showcase above the fold. Reminds me of those Flash-based interactive UI demos that phone makers had on their sites back in the early 00s.
Why doesn’t it use a sim card
burrurrrring burrurrring,Hello you have reached the US Government Prosecution Department,Elon division please press #1 if Elon said something incorrect press 2 for Elon is arrogant,get him 3 for all issues with fairness 4 for space beams and rocket chem trails and 5 for all other things that Elon is responsible for
These are all great comments here, but I am surprised no one is concerned about this being from Hong Kong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
No a phone
I don't know how to arduino and I have no ideas what to do with this but it sounds and looks very cool, the price is good too. Good work.
Might be nice for senior citizens.
any reasons to not have a fully touch screen phone in the pro model?
From their FAQ[1]:
> WHY ARE YOU USING BUTTONS AND NOT A TOUCHSCREEN?
> Because they are simpler and (at this scale) cheaper than buying a larger touch-enabled screen. We want to make a low-cost phone that's easy for people to adapt to their needs. We think physical buttons are easier for people with limited hacking skills (or simply better things to do than configure soft buttons) to adapt to their needs.
[1]: https://wiphone.io/FAQ.html
It's also more power efficient and robust to damage.
And you can reliable type text without looking.
Yes. I miss the physical retractable keypad of my Xperia Mini Pro
Did you consider the Pinephone with keyboard?